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(Written because so much crap has been put out on the subject, I needed a rant. Sue me.)

Over the past couple of weeks or so, there has been some discussion over on pagga (of which I am a member, but only in the sense of lurker, to be honest) about what constitutes acceptable game play and acceptable game requirements. The first strand was started by someone expressing surprise at the unease of one (or some) of the female players in his Gor (God help us!) LARP game. I think that [livejournal.com profile] pax_draconis had the right of it in the observation that there was trollism at work, but nonetheless it stirred some debate. My personal view on the particular game, is that anyone playing a game based on the risible Gor sequence pretty much deserves what they get, but that’s not the point.

The point is, that anyone writing or administering a game, be it LARP or Freeform, should never require the players to do something which at best they are likely either to be uncomfortable with, or at worst, end up committing what may be in other circumstances an arrestable offence. Call me old fashioned like that.

I do not profess to be an expert in these matters, but I do have some experience of writing freeforms (though the LARP side of the hobby is relatively alien to me). I have only ever done this as a co-writer, and never as the prime writer/plotter, and certainly never as the overall organiser/head honcho. I have no ambitions beyond the level of input I already have, and that only for one further game. After that, my freeform writing days are over, and likely my entire involvement with the hobby, although I retain the right to change my mind on the latter if something of quality and comparatively modest scope comes along.

My position on all this is quite simple: know your players and their limits, and write accordingly. If you have a part or parts planned that may require certain in-character behaviour, be especially careful how you cast the part; if possible, ask the players if they are comfortable with it. If you cannot do that, then either find another plot line, or at the very least ensure that the plotline is not essential to the overall run of the game, so that an unwilling player doesn’t end up having his or her experience ruined, and the rest of the game damaged. If you are not sure of your players’ limits, then write conservatively. This does not mean that you should fail to write imaginatively, but it does mean that you should not presume upon your players. To do otherwise, insults them, spoils everyone’s enjoyment, and demeans you as a writer.

Challenge your players. Push their roleplaying, encourage them to step out of the envelope; their role play and your writing will spark off each other and the entire experience will evolve and develop for the better. Corner someone with sensationalism and crass vulgarity and you deserve the backlash.

The point of a game, be it LARP, freeform, or even a board game like monopoly, is to entertain, not to insult or embarrass. And quite apart from any of these considerations, if you cannot justify care on any other basis, remember that there is a very good chance that your player has paid for the privilege of playing your game. It rubs both ways: players have a right to expect you to do of your best because they have paid for it, whether you make money on the deal or not, they have paid – and given the demographics of the hobby, they have probably paid an amount which is comparatively significant in their own personal circumstances - and you have the right to expect the players to play as well as they can, doing justice to your material.

But there should be mutual respect, not one-sided assumption.

If you can’t write and run a game under these constraints, then you should step back from the hobby. If you want to run a Gor BSM session one weekend fine, be my guest. Just make sure it’s for you and a small number of like-minded friends in a secluded environment. It’s still a relatively free country, after all. Just don’t pretend it’s something else, and let your players fall into a trap not of their making.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 03:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bibliogirl.livejournal.com
In our games, which admittedly are a lot shorter than the stuff with which you're involved, we tend to steer clear of stuff that might be seen as triggering for our players. Thus, you will, in general, not find a lot of sex-related plot; you certainly won't find any backstory involving any kind of abuse, nor any plot relating to same. And Gor and similar would be right out.

However, we've never claimed to write games which would be especially deep and meaningful; three hours of fun, sure, and enjoyable to play.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 03:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] westernind.livejournal.com
Hear hear.

And make sure there isn't unconscious pressure on the player to play something they're not happy with. There are, unfortunately, strong social taboos placed on the survivors of sexual abuse and violence. "Don't talk about it - it's not right for polite society".

If you present someone with a prewritten character sheet containing themes which are likely to be triggering, the onus is then on that person to have to 'come out' and explain why those themes are distressing - and thus violate those taboos, and risk being stigmatised as a Victim. The easier thing is for them to just shut up and play the character.

It's a hard one to deal with sensitively.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] robcee.livejournal.com
sorry to seem dense but...

If you dont tell me that you have an issue with, say, themes of drug abuse.
And I write you a character background including those themes, then surely you have to tell me that there is a problem?

I can ask everyone up front if they have an issue with themes being explored, but that also places the onus on you to tell me, or withdraw from the game if you are upset by depiction of those issues.

Either way, either you tell me, or you remain in an unhappy position within the game.

How do you deal with it sensitively?

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] westernind.livejournal.com
If the writer allows the space for someone just to say "no, not happy" without having to provide any explanation - and doesn't push, or pressure - then I think that's sensitive. That's good.

Personally I'd be happier with writers who thought explicitly about the issues before putting pen to paper. (if that's what you meant - am not sure.)

Otherwise... let's keep this hypothetical... you can end up with a situation where the player says no, the writers' beautifully interweaved plot goes astray, and it's then natural human behaviour on the part of the writers to blame the player. (Unless the player dumps a load of personal history on the writers that the writers probably didn't want to hear, and isn't any of their business.) Thus the social pressure on the player, who realises they will get blamed - or might end up without being able to play a character at all, if the rejected one goes to someone else - to just go along with what's written, and hope it'll all be OK. Takes a lot of strength to resist that pressure. Much easier if the writers think about it beforehand.

I dunno about themes of drug abuse, haven't considered it. Is there a social pressure to keep quiet about it? There is with sexual violence and abuse. Does any writing team know which of their player base is going to get triggered? Survivors don't wear badges proclaiming their status.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 11:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dreamfire.livejournal.com
As ever this is the kind of issue that we disagree on wholeheartedly.

It is not down to a writing team to nanny a persons difficult areas. It is down to a writing team to write on whatever theme they want to write and explore it to whatever extent they possibly can.

So long as the type and level of material is made clear to people it is each individuals duty to decide where the best line between social pressure and their own happiness is. If they chose to take what you call the easy route and try and play something they are clearly unhappy with then that's their problem and if it turns into a mess, then yes they are responsible. The writing team can't overcome social pressure for them. People have to take responsibility for themselves.

Ah, sweet irony

Date: 2005-05-22 10:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] westernind.livejournal.com
Devoid of knitting, I shall betake myself to the garden centre. Over and out.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scary-lady.livejournal.com
I was shocked, but in a good way, by the obsessive gay love theme going on under my nose in Harco at NWO Rome. I had lots of respect for the players who picked up that baton and ran with it; I'm always somewhat uncomfortable with love stories in lrp even within my own sexuality, playing an opposing sexuality up close and personal must be incredibly hard.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 03:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pax-draconis.livejournal.com
I had to write a very difficult mail to those two players at a very early stage to ask whether they would be OK with it. Worse, I only knew Neil in passing, and Arwel not at all. I lucked out in that they are, in fact, best mates and neither of them were uncomfortable with the roles - had they been, I would have rejigged that entire plotline.

That was about as awkward an e-mail as ever I have written, and the players did the theme proud without making it into "a thing".

I tend to be hypersensitive to possible player offence.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 04:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caddyman.livejournal.com
I recall the angst levels rising significantly while you were debating the use of the plot line.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 04:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pax-draconis.livejournal.com
Mm.

It was, IIRC, Phila dn dan who suggested the initial plot seed. My concern came at least partly from the obvious connections someone would make between me and casting fit young blokes in gay parts.

Not that I'm complaining at how it turned out, mind.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caddyman.livejournal.com
But the point is that you checked with the players first. You didn't drop them into a pair of roles they were uncomfortable with.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pax-draconis.livejournal.com
That should obviously be [livejournal.com profile] philoko and [livejournal.com profile] misterdaniel, not Phila dn dan who is obviously a Hyperborean sorcerer from the pages of Robert E. Howard.

General propositions

Date: 2005-05-20 03:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] november-girl.livejournal.com
I'd agree with everything you've said, but with one caveat - I don't think it's fair to say that anyone playing something based on the Gor background deserves all they get. I've been entirely unfamiliar with most of the backgrounds that I've played with, but have trust in the ref. I'd never encountered Ars Magica before NWO, nor Space 1889 before the train game. If someone said they were basing a game on Cthulu or Gor I wouldn't be any the wiser as I have no experience whatsoever of either. I trust my referees to flag up anything that is out of the ordinary or potentially controversial, and whilst I think just about any behaviour is fine between consenting adults, the fact that something is stated to be based on a background that someone knows nothing about should not be assumed to entail consent: everything you need to play a game should be evident in the pre-event information/character sheet and it should be perfectly possible to play without any knowledge of a background - unless the refs tell you there is a need to know the background in advance.

Re: General propositions

Date: 2005-05-20 04:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] caddyman.livejournal.com
The Gor comment was a throwaway line based on my own view of it: cheap, rubbishy toss fodder for pimply 14 year olds. But you get my general point.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 03:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smokingboot.livejournal.com
I have stayed away from the Pagga discussion, presuming that the Gor of which they speak is that utter pap written by John Norman. I am astonished that anyone would touch this stuff.

One will never be able to guarantee non-offensiveness, because triggers are so many and varied. But the attempt to try, without disneyfying the roleplay, is encumbent upon the writer; I also feel that the traumatised should be very careful about getting involved in most kinds of adult aimed LARP, as inevitably disturbing issues (violence being the most common) are bound to occur.

Respect and commonsense on both sides are necessary.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 05:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] agentinfinity.livejournal.com
Me n Jamie got pretty paranoid about some of the stuff in our game, as we really wanted to cover stuff that was in Renaissance plays, and obviously the concept of political correctness was very far from being invented. But I think we got away with it without offending anyone... I hope. It is really tricky though. There are still some subjects I would probably avoid.

(no subject)

Date: 2005-05-20 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] captainweasel.livejournal.com
The yardstick I work by in any game, tabletop, LRP or computer is that the more people actively Enjoy it the better - that's including All the players, GM's, NPC's, Monsters et al.
Of course, the spotlight can swing one way and the other, but no one should have less than a good time - everyone gets a chance to do their thing, no one has fun at someone elses expense.
It's always easiest with people you know well as you know what they'll enjoy and what are topics to avoid. with a wider audience, many of whom you don't know it's safer to stick to safer themes and check people are ooc Ok with them beforehand.
From: [identity profile] littleonions.livejournal.com
You just have to make it clear what your game will entail, no not only just that or I suppose 'Gor' games might, in some possible when, be acceptible, but this is a full conversation, not an Lj soundbite...
As an aside I try not to slag off what I haven't read, I have read a couple of Gor books and sad to say there were a couple of scenes in one novel,that were very well written; it concerned animals rather than mysogeny, but the prose was good and the narrative description interesting and engaging; such a waste. Although I bet he cries into his bank account over the fact this chick didn't dig his ethos :)

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